Susan Heyward (Sister Sage) in 'The Boys.' Prime Logo text [This story contains major spoilers from episode seven of The Boys season five, “The Frenchman, the Female, and the Man Called Mother’s Milk.”]
For five seasons, The Boys has done the unexpected — and in some cases, the seemingly impossible — when it comes to the established boundaries of television. That includes the character of Sister Sage, a Black woman unlike any the screen (or real world) has seen.
Susan Heyward’s portrayal of the smartest person on the planet is a rarity not just because The Boys dared to put a Black woman near the top of its super-powered food chain. But because in a world where almost every character has an unsettling real-world equivalent, Sage largely stands alone. Go far back in American history or cinema, and most would be hard pressed to name three real or fictional Black women who have charted a path that resembles Homelander’s mastermind.
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The reveal of Sage’s masterplan in episode six, “Though the Heavens Fall,” brought that into focus, specifically around what has motivated her careful, calculated maneuvering for three seasons (including spinoff Gen V). She was never on Homelander’s side — she was always on her own, puppeteering him in the name of the complete destruction of a society that had disrespected her.
Which is why the total collapse of that long-game plan — Soldier Boy (Jensen Ackles) as the key to stopping Homelander’s (Anthony Starr) acquisition of V1 — shattered Sage, and potentially the notion that The Boys would end on a largely hopeful note. While Sister Sage may have been able to manipulate some of the world’s most explosive supes, she would not have single-handedly had the ability to remake the world in her quiet, solitary vision. In her quest to become the world’s most successful isolationist, she may have doomed herself — and everyone else — to a Homelander-fueled nightmare.
It’s an outcome that could have been easy to spot, especially for a woman whose intelligence Heyward has frequently described as heightened pattern recognition versus mere knowledge representation and reasoning. Instead, Sister Sage missed the signs twice. First while in love with Thomas Godolkin (Ethan Slater, Hamish Linklater), an outcome in hindsight that served as a harbinger for the second miss of Soldier Boy and Homelander’s V1 exchange. In a world full of patterns, humans — including their love of power and people — can be unpredictable. But could that mean the woman who weighs every outcome has one last trick up her sleeve after episode seven? Or will Sage meet an end with no redemption?
Speaking to The Hollywood Reporter below after the penultimate episode of the series, Heyward unpacks Sage’s recent string of choices, her nihilism and possible fate heading into The Boys series finale. The actress also reflects on her first and last days on set, how she and her career have been affected since joining the show, the now-cancelled Gen V spinoff, and taking The Boys finale to theaters in 4DX.
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Your last day on set — what was that experience like?
Incredibly emotional and very sad, and it was very sudden. The entire season I’d been trying to prepare myself, tracking the last times. This is the last time I’m going to get a third script. This is the last time I’m going to get a final script. This is the last time I’m going to put on this costume. This is the last time I’ll meet with this crew member.
And even with all of that awareness, the very last day felt like being shoved off a cliff a little bit. You work so hard, there’s all this momentum to get it done and then it seems very sudden. It’s the last setup, the last scene, and then they call “cut” and you’re shoved into the next chapter of your life. The incredibly hardworking crew was so kind. There’s a ritual we have when an actor shoots their last scene. Everyone gathers and applauds the work that. So when everyone applauded me, I got very welled up and really tried to say something eloquent and I got too emotional to say something. I think I curtsied, muttered “thank you” and ran back to my trailer. I was so overwhelmed and so grateful.
I want to ask about your first day, too, as well as the impact of being on such a big show, personally and professionally. Starring in a global hit can change things for people. What was your day one experience and how have you been affected by this journey?
The jury’s still out on professionally. Kind of still pulling that train into the station. I think also more than ever alongside watching the industry change, I’ve taken more responsibility for what I want to put out in the world. I came up right at the end of a hierarchy in Hollywood feeling like doors were shut and that you had to go through a certain system, you had to pay your dues in a certain way. And the world’s really changed. The ability to make something yourself has opened up. It’s been a challenge to change my mindset around taking ownership of what I would like to put out there in the world. But after this, I want to prioritize it more.
The first filming day was this scene where Ryan gets pitched like a miniature Homelander and Sage just comes right out and says, “That’s stupid. It’s a dumb idea.” (Laughs.) They threw me right in the deep end of the pool with a bunch of people around me, going directly at Ant as Homelander. I was shaking I was so afraid, actually, because I was a huge fan of the show and I didn’t want to mess up. But I felt really welcome. I felt really empowered. One moment stands out in particular for me. I’m someone who tends to listen and gather everything and then responds. I try to make sure I hear everything first. But as we were discussing things, it was really important for me to stop someone who had started speaking, because I wasn’t quite finished yet.
I remember saying, “Oops, just a second, I’m going to finish.” It seems like a really small moment, but I know for women, for Black women, for people who are often underestimated, you can get interrupted often a lot and it can be exhausting to make space for yourself. So that was a moment I was very proud of. It was internal and personal and I think that helped give me confidence to make my choices, make my presence felt as much as I could while also being respectful to everything that had been built before I’d arrived.
Susan Heyward (Sister Sage) in The Boys. Prime It was announced that the finale will air in theaters for one day in 4DX. Did you know that was coming?
I did not. We had a screening in a theater when we went to Rome. When I heard, I was like, “Okay, we’re going to bookend it. We’re going to go out big.” But I had no idea and I’m really, really excited to share because when we got… I don’t know if they’re going to have fans set up the same way, but any opportunity we have to be alongside the fans in person, I’m really, really excited to do that.
What about the finale experience do you think will play well in 4DX, a really interactive format?
The intimacy. There are some really big epic moments, but the show has always been incredible at going from these huge epic moments to these really intimate, close moments dealing with power, love, need, desperation. To be able to experience the intimacy between the characters with hundreds of other people and be intimate with them as you share it. I was also someone who watched the show at home, just me and my husband — me, my boo. But to watch with other people who love the show as much as we do would just elevate the experience.
You appeared for a multi-episode arc in the recently-cancelled Boys spinoff Gen V. I really enjoyed Sage’s arc in it, and I was sad to see the series go.
Me too. Me too.
What was your experience working on that show and how do you feel like it helped develop your character?
Her arc on Gen V helped me understand who she was because at the end of season four, she was such a sphinx. We didn’t know what phase two was going to be. There was so much chatter about whether or not she was going to be a traitor to Homelander and really for liberation and really down for the cause or not. And for me during her arc in Gen V, it became really clear to me that, oh no, Sage still hasn’t really healed from being dismissed by those smart white men. There’s something in her that’s still searching for the validation that she didn’t get then. There’s something in her that she has become like the people who hurt her in that she doesn’t want to help. She’s not going to help. She’s going to choose herself. And so while that was a question at the end of season four, that arc and Gen V solidified who she was for me. So I was really prepared for what was coming down the pipe in season five.
That’s interesting in how it explains the big twist of six and the mistake of trusting Soldier Boy, which is not the first time she’s missed the mark in a big way. She also miscalculated in Gen V with Godolkin. You’ve previously described Sage not just as book smart, but that her genius comes from her pattern recognition, her analytic skills. Why do you think she was so off with these two?
The thing that made sense to me — because I remember when I first read that reveal about Soldier Boy and Homelander, and I was like, “Absolutely not. This patriarchal motherfucker is not going to humble himself to the love of a woman who he doesn’t respect as a human being.” How? How? (Laughs.) But it set me up in a great place to deliver Sage’s reaction. I will say, I think it’s similar to why do we marry people who are like our parents? Why do we find ourselves in the same situation over and over, even though we know how it ends? I feel like psychologically there’s something that makes us return to the same situation hoping it’s going to go different next time. So psychologically, that’s the way I had to build her in my head. She’s going back to that wound that hasn’t healed. And what we do when we haven’t healed our wounds is repeat the same thing.
Heyward (Sister Sage), Colby Minifie (Ashley Barrett). Prime Something underneath what you’ve just said, too, is that this is ultimately not just about her, but these white men. Even if you are the smartest person in the room, if the people who hold the most power don’t respect you, it doesn’t matter.
They’re going to turn on you, eventually. It doesn’t matter what they say. They can even think they’re loyal to you, but if you’re with someone who doesn’t respect you and there’s a part of you that needs respect from them, you’re going to Sisyphus this.
We learn Sage’s familial background and motivations for backing Homelander, and it made me think about what fuels nihilism. There are people who lack empathy, who are sociopaths uninterested in addressing how they hurt those around them. Then there are nihilists who hate people because they love people — who see how other people hurt people, and their solution to “protecting” people from that is by simply ending it for everyone. In light of what we learn about Sage, what does she represent in the world of The Boys as a Black woman, as as a person of color, to anyone watching this show? What kind of nihilist is she to you?
What makes sense is Sage is a go with the flow nihilist. It’s someone who thinks people are not going to change. I think more from the disappointed camp — people aren’t going to change, so I might as well get what I can get and live my life and die as happy as I can. I think a lot of every regular day people are closer to that than they might realize. I think there are really small, sometimes simple, boring things that we can do to resist the kind of oppression that we are experiencing and that cumulatively could be incredibly powerful. But it’s easier to go with the flow. It’s easier to say, “I know what’s going to happen, so I might as well position myself to get what I can get and get out.”
It’s the apathy that develops as a defense mechanism.
Yeah. You protect your heart that way. You can tell yourself you’re smart, that you’re big, you’re bad. You’re just being realistic and strategic. It’s a lot less vulnerable than being hopeful. Than admitting to yourself that, yeah, I’m going to do my little bit of recycling or, yeah, all of my friends are going to go to certain coffee shops that will not be named here, but I’m not going to go and I’m going to go alone and I’ll meet up with y’all later. I think it’s the nihilism of thinking nothing’s going to change, so I don’t have to challenge myself to change either.
In episode seven, when viewers see Ashley (Colby Minifie) quiet that voice on her head, you get the creeping sense she’s lost the very thing that makes her good, human. Sage has a similar moment. She’s considering a lobotomy and gets walked off that ledge to instead help stop Homelander. But when he arrives, she hides and Frenchie (Tomer Capone) dies as a result. The episode had multiple who do you want to be moments, and how you just described Sage’s sense of nihilism, it felt like this could be her redemptive moment — and yet. What would you tell fans about who Sage is going into this finale?
The doorway I found into it was two things. That piece of humanity that you talked about that Ashley loses, I’m not sure Sage ever had it. In the monologue, she says her parents shot her up with V when she was three years old. I don’t think she remembers what human connection is in a very deep way. I think she has a vague almost memory of her grandmother. That was the closest. But in the timeline I built that makes sense, her parents shoot her up when she’s three. I think they managed to deal with her for about three or four more years when she’s seven and then she lives with her grandmother for maybe three years and right around 10 or 11, she’s scouted. She’s the girl genius and she’s performing and there’s no love. So it’s years and years and years of no love. Just being useful and only being useful for your brain.
I don’t think Sage has that. I think she’s lived her whole life in that isolation without really being taught that way. The second part for me, she’s always been a physical coward. She’s been a bit of an emotional coward, not being vulnerable unless it’s one of those white men that she can heal that wound from. Then physically, she’s always set up other people to fight her battles. The way she set up Starlight and Firecracker to fight each other on national TV, she’s always stayed out of the physical fray. So for me, it made sense that for the first time she’s going to be confronted physically — she doesn’t have any value to Homelander, Butcher’s not there — she’s got to go. She got to run. She would hide behind Kimiko if she could. The physical coward that’s always been in my mind didn’t suddenly become physically brave for me.
Susan Heyward (Sister Sage) in The Boys. Prime There’s always a question anyways of whether a single choice can make up for a lot of bad decisions. It’s felt like it depends on the kind of single choice you make. Is there still hope she makes the right one?
We got one more episode. She got one more. And I love that question. For us, it’s, “Who do we give more chances to make that single decision versus who do we say, ‘No, you made the wrong decision. One, two, three, four, five times and you’re done.’” Who can we give leniency to and why?
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The Boys season five is currently streaming new episodes every Wednesday on Amazon Prime Video. The series finale is set to screen in select 4DX theaters on Tuesday, May 19 and will stream on Prime Video Wednesday, May 20.
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